Replies to This Discussion | 이 토론에 대한 답글들

Permalink Reply by Steven S. Bammel on February 23, 2010 at 12:09pm

Those are excellent questions and very relevant to the situation faced by many in our community. It's also been on the top of my mind lately as I've been trying to help an associate find a job in Korea, and as I think about my career options in the future. Here are some conclusions I've been drawing:

1. The job market in Korea is wide open for native English speakers in Korea willing to teach English or otherwise help Koreans communicate in English.
This is just stating the obvious though and many foreigners in Korea are looking to move beyond the English scene.

2. Korean companies won't generally hire non-Koreans for skills they view as ordinary (i.e. can be learned at university) and even if they do, remuneration will not be eye-popping.
I don't think you'll find many jobs for programmers in the English job listings; and the positions for programmers in the Korean job listings will generally be entry-level for recent college grads.

3. Speaking Korean is not much (any!?) of an advantage in getting a job with a Korean company. Non-Koreans who achieve success in Korea using their acquired Korean skills do so because they took an "outside the box" approach to career development.
I remember once trying to introduce a fluent Korean-speaking American friend to a leading Korean company. The president told me flat out, "We don't care if he speaks Korean; we want him to speak English in the office." That put him back to the rank of "English teacher" right away.

4. Foreign-invested companies in Korea don't offer an easy road either.
Foreign companies may have a wider range of job options available but there are far fewer of these. They are also generally looking for Korean employees in technical positions and they limit their non-Korean hires to management positions.

5. Whatever opportunities there are as a non-Korean for positions outside the English-teaching field, they will be found only through personal networking.
This, of course, doesn't apply to famous sports stars, Nobel laureates and CEOs of international corporations. But all others only have a chance of landing a job by actually showing up and meeting people.

6. Taking a long-term approach mitigates the above obstacles.
For example, if you're willing to take an entry level job somewhere, perhaps you could establish your connections and reputation. By learning Korean, you may find the odd opportunity where that skill is appreciated in a corporate environment.

Feedback anyone? I'm hoping someone with much different background, skill set and outlook will add a deeper perspective to my observations above.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dom LaVigne on February 23, 2010 at 1:15pm

Steven,

Well, from my own experience so far in doing the Korea jobhunt, I would strongly echo your points #5, #3, #6 in that order -- particularly #5.

In my career, I have not had a single job that I got through a job ad -- all were through contacts and networking. Networking as it is done in Asia is a very different skillset than what people do in the States (and perhaps in Europe, although I am not as well-versed on European business practices and culture, and it would not be appropriate for me to make assumptions). Certainly doing the job ads should be part of it, but I'd say perhaps 5-10% at most. The rest must be through networking and taking a long-term view.

My sense with Korea is similar to what I have seen in China, in that there is a huge pool of very qualified local talent who were educated abroad, came back home (and many who might have worked while overseas), so from a talent perspective and from a cost point-of-view, these workers would likely be more attractive to employers (Korean or MNCs in Korea) than taking on a foreigner.

Steffen - a few points from what I have seen in Asia that might be helpful. Funny how there must be a psychic connection, as I was just wanting to respond to your original posting when I saw Steven's note and tips here.

1. Don't get discouraged by what you are reading here, but frankly it is important to have a very realistic assessment of the market you are planning to enter and the kinds of chances you'll have. I feel Steven presents a very balanced picture.

2. I always put myself in the shoes of an Immigration official (and not just in Korea, but in any country, including the US). The litmus test for your being able to work in Korea will ultimately be -- do you possess skills or experience which are so unique that they could not be done by a Korean national? If yes, then you've got a very good shot at it. If no or not sure, even if the employer were willing to hire you on, there is a very high chance Immigration would not approve it.

3. Networking, networking, networking -- certainly in Asia, and esp in Korea, it's most often who you know that will make the difference. Most jobs are unadvertised and often positions are created based on people who meet you, like what you have to offer, realize there is a need in their organization (or you help them to realize where there is a need by studying about their org and how you can make a difference) and then opting to create a new position which will harness your special talents.

If you have not done so already, get involved on LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com). If you go to my profile, you'll see a number of jobhunting and Korea-related groups in which I am involved. Just click on the logos and you can sign up on those and start to learn more about the Korea market, get to meet people, and post some info on yourself and what you are seeking. I am not active in all the Korea forums, and I have seen a number of ICT-related job groups that would interest you.

Two very useful ones I've found are the broader "Asia Pacific" and "Asia Pac" (if I recall the titles correctly) job groups which are quite broad, but I have seen some postings for IT professionals in Korea over the last month or so.

ContactKorea: http://www.contactkorea.go.kr/en/index.do -- this is a KR-govt resource which has offices around the world seeking local talent who would like to work in Korea. In my case, their resources and job opps did not really fit what I was seeking (but I still registered with them, as you never know)... most of their postings were ICT-related. My virtual interactions with their staff were also good, as I found them very responsive and professional.

If you are planning on visiting Korea in Apr/May, do your homework well and plan to have a bunch of meetings setup before you leave home. These all don't have to be job interviews... try and get as many informational interviews as you can. In my more recent trips to Korea (2008) when I was there for business or holiday, I tried to setup a number of mtgs beforehand which were not necessarily just jobhunting, but more wanting to meet the right people, get a sense of Korean business (both from KR execs' and foreign execs' points of view), understand for the career field that I was looking into, what types of jobs and opps were available, and what kinds of challenges I could expect to face trying to jobhunt remotely (and as a foreigner).

It's best if you can really do your homework now over the next month or so and get a good assessment of the Korea job market, lifestyle, culture, etc. and based on your background and interests, whether there would be opps for you. Talk with EuroCham, and the Danish Chamber of Commerce (if there is one in Seoul). If KOTRA, InvestKorea, or other entities are setup in Denmark close to you, see if you can meet with them to learn more about Korea business and other areas that will give you a full 360-degree picture of what is going on (beyond just looking for a job -- it is critical to understand as much as you can about what could potentially be your new home).

4. Timeline: Quite frankly, if you are able to secure a job in 4-5 weeks on the ground in Korea, that would be fantastic. But from my experience in Asia, and just with jobhunting in general, you need to give yourself a minimum of 3-4 months, and that is based on the assumption that you are spending 40hrs/week looking for a job. If you are able to stay in Korea for at least 90 days, that would be ideal, because you will likely need to setup initial appts with contacts, then they might refer you to other contacts (etc. etc.) as well as needing to be available for multiple rounds of discussions for job opps and/or for orgs who might wish to consider creating a position for you.

If when you are in Seoul there are networking events and opps, you should definitely take advantage of them. Several members of KBC manage a couple LinkedIn groups (Expat & Korean Professionals in Korea and LinkedSeoul are two good ones) which you should checkout and monitor for upcoming events when you expect to be in Korea.

---Dom

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ondrej Slechta on February 23, 2010 at 10:36pm

No. 3 is interesting. I was once told that I am at disadvantage because my Korean is "too good".
Knowing career paths of some non-Koreans who have succeeded in Korea, they were mostly successful because of other set of skills than knowledge of Korean.

Re. No. 5, some of my friends with IT backgrounds got jobs in Korea via the internet without any network but then again, the renumeration was not that great.

The best shot is probably to get reallocated within a global corporation with operations in Korea.

I myself have been thinking about going back to Korea but major drawbacks are salary levels and generally weak demand for fluent Korean speakers.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dom LaVigne on February 23, 2010 at 11:00pm

Realistically, the only way to get relocated from the home country with a global MNC into Korea (or any other market) is if a person has spent significant time with them in corp HQ and are then relocated abroad. For a mid-level or more junior role within an MNC in Korea, it is not likely they would commit the kinds of resources required to put a person abroad. If they did, it would likely be with the understanding that the person would serve a 3-4 year stint and then rotate back to the MNC's HQ or other offices in its home country.

For very senior-level positions, companies might hire someone out of the job market (through an exec search firm) and then move the person out to Asia, but normally this is usually someone who has been with the organization a long time and who knows the company well enough that they can represent its country operations (or a certain segment of it) in the region. Hiring off the street for something like this (and for someone who had no experience with the company) would be rare for a market like Korea or China.

Since 2000, and with the exception of C-level positions or other senior roles which are highly specialized and where MNCs could not find a local candidate, they have cut back dramatically on expat packages. More often than not (again, C-level being the exception) it is much more common to see companies hiring for positions in Asia on modified or even local packages - i.e., higher salary and normal benefits but no housing, educational allowances, tax equalization, etc.

Again, this boils down to why a company should hire a foreigner who is much more expensive than a local, if the foreigner does not have highly specialized and/or unique skills or experience which local candidates cannot bring to the organization.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steffen Nissen on February 24, 2010 at 6:22am

Thank you for the answers everyone.

This is both reassuring and discouraging.

I am glad to hear that it is actually possible to get jobs without a network, since I realize that building up a network will take some time. Still no. 3 and no. 5 are reassuring, since it means that even though there are very few published jobs for English speaking foreigners, there actually are more jobs out there, you just have to find them.

No. 2 is a bit confusing for me. In my current position, I am working as an IT Project Manager for a Danish Asset Manager, where I manage a multi-million dollar project. However, I have been worried that a Korean company would not hire a foreigner for a position where communication is key. For this reason my current resume is downplaying the Project Manager part and emphasizing the fact that I am also an accomplished Software Developer, and with this resume I am targeting entry- to mid-level positions. No. 2 does, however, indicate that I should not go for the entry-level position and instead emphasize my project management and financial experience and go directly for a management position.
Any comments on this?

I realize that getting the right job in Seoul will take some time, and in order for this to work out, my wife and I have decided that she will quit her job and move to Seoul in March to look for a job and to set up a base. Then I will come out for four weeks in April and May, and hopefully I will be able to get a job there. If not, I hope that the four weeks there will have helped me build up a network.

I have already joined quite a few LinkedIn groups, but I have not been very active in these. If i wan't to build up a network before going, I should probably start to be more active in these groups. I have also tried posting my resume to job boards and ContactKorea, but I have not have much luck there.

Thanks again,
Steffen

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steven S. Bammel on February 24, 2010 at 10:58am

Regarding your question about whether to emphasize your project manager skills or your software developer skills, I would say that the better question to ask is which skills and resources you bring to the job that the Korean company won't find on the local market.

If you've developed unique business connections and experiences as a project manager, then that should be emphasized; If you've done some amazing things in software, then the Korean company will want to know that.

Keep in mind that you're competing against remarkable people in the Korean job market and you have to identify and play up your unique points while finding the niches those uniquenesses will fill in the Korean market.

Dom's points above about networking, research, hard work and taking the long-view are worth re-reading. I believe you can succeed by taking the right approach.

Please keep us informed about your progress and learning, both along the way and once you land that great job!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Don Southerton on February 24, 2010 at 7:52am

A caveat to all the excellent comments and dialogue--when the top Korean corporations do hire non-Koreans for a key position in Korea they most often look globally (outside Korea), and use international search firms. These folks must be highly experienced, time-proven, and have worked as an executive for top global firms IBM, P&G, Audi, etc.

In contrast,
Some of the major Korean firms have opened "Non-Korean only apply" positions at their Korean HQ, but just a few and usually within HR, PR, and marketing. These positions start at sawon level. They look for multi lingual folks with international marketing/ business degrees. Lots are from Canada, Europe or where the organization is moving into new markets (Russia, Slovakia etc).

Usually they get 400-800 applications--- and hire 2-3. Sadly, few last a year or two within the major corporations. BTW It takes months for the paperwork to be processed and some give up and look elsewhere...

Questions? Just em me :)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dom LaVigne on February 24, 2010 at 8:13am

It reminds me of when I was living in Washington, DC and looking for jobs (esp govt jobs) there... extremely skilled workforce where several USG agencies and some private firms had told me they were receiving 700 applications for a single, middle- to upper-middle mgt job. They would start cutting away applicants who did not have at least an MBA or MA degree, then further shortlist from there...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steffen Nissen on February 24, 2010 at 4:08pm

After hearing this, I think that I am doing the right thing by trying to go for a entry- to mid-level position, but I can see that I probably need to go through my resume very carefully in order to emphasize all my strengths. I can also see that I need to create two resumes, one for financial companies and one for other companies, as I know that there is a need for software developers with financial experience.

I must say that applying for positions in Korea is much different than other places.
Before we decided on moving to Korea, my wife and I was talking about moving to Singapore. Here I could simply update my resume to efinancialcareers.sg and I was sure to get a few contacts from recruiters with specific positions the next day.In Singapore many of the positions that I would apply for were also posted by recruiters, and the name of the company was not disclosed. As I see it, the job market in Singapore is very much controlled by global recruiters, while the job market in Korea is controlled by personal relations.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dom LaVigne on February 24, 2010 at 4:26pm

As someone who had lived in SG the last five of eight years, it is a very different living/working environment than Korea, but it is not necessarily the case with recruiters having more market influence or control in SG vs KR.

In Singapore, yes things are very transparent and easy - esp because there are no language barriers (well, OK understanding Singlish can sometimes be a challenge...) However, if you are doing ICT, finance, or marcoms work, there are a huge number of opps at all levels. So long as you have had a reasonable amt of experience and are going for at least a manager-level job, it is generally very easy to get approved for a work permit. For someone like yourself, after living there for 18 months, you should be able to get permanent residency.

In my experience though, while I have worked with a couple wonderful exec search firms there and have really good, professional contacts in those organizations I have known for many years, I never actually did get a job through them. Again, the jobs I took were all as a result of networking, and things which were not advertised on the open market. There are certainly more recruiters servicing all levels of the job market in SG vs KR, but realistically, your success rate will depend on your occupation and industry preferences.

While how networking is done in SG is different than in Korea, and it is a much more Westernized and culturally-diverse market than Korea, building your network of contacts and developing effective long-term approaches to integrating into Singapore life and culture as critical as you would need for Korea as in all other Asia Pac markets.

I think there are upsides and downsides both to Korea and Singapore - it really depends on the kind of lifestyle you are looking for (slower/faster pace), ease of integration into local society, your business/personal style (casual or more formal). Certainly Singapore needs to bring in many foreigners to help meet their workforce needs in the coming years, so they are being very aggressive about wanting to bring in talent from all over the world. And, they have been making a big pitch to attract Koreans in particular, as well as Mainland Chinese.

If you are considering SG as well as Korea, drop me a note privately (dom@domlavigne.com) and I can give you a list of web sites that would be helpful, in addition to the ones you might have already checked.

---Dom

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steffen Nissen on February 25, 2010 at 1:24am

We are not considering Singapore anymore, but thanks for wanting to help.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mike Park on February 25, 2010 at 8:25pm

Steffen - The following link (see the below URL address) may not be the single best place to look for a job posting (in reference to your second bullet point/question), but it might well be worth your time to just take a quick look --- job search/posting your resume/CV.

Yes, this website is in English. In fact, it was designed for non-Korean speaking individuals. Arguably it has French, English, Japanese and Chinese language support.

check it out ---> http://global.seoul.go.kr/

Good luck with your job search.

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous | 이전
• 1
• 2
• Next | 다음 ›
• Page