Replies to This Discussion | 이 토론에 대한 답글들

Permalink Reply by Michael Choi on September 1, 2011 at 5:57pm

Wow, that just ridiculous and so Korean. I think national assembly members need to visit a Pachinko parlor in Tokyo and chill out.

 

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Permalink Reply by William Sisson on September 1, 2011 at 6:08pm

LOL - so funny and true. But I was talking to my coworkers and Koreans can go to the hose track and make bets in Korea and they can also gamble (play) the lottery. Maybe the reporter is not correctly reporting the truth. Anyone know a Fact Checker? Seems like the Korea JoongAng Daily could use one. 

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Permalink Reply by Cory Olson on September 1, 2011 at 6:09pm

Horse track racing and lotto are under special provisions under the law to allow citizens to participate. Same for the Gangwon Land Casino.

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Permalink Reply by Cory Olson on September 1, 2011 at 6:15pm

Funny thing about Pachinko is that (officially) almost all forms of gambling in Japan are illegal. Pachinko skirts this rule as officially you purchase the balls which can then be exchanged for token prizes and then the prizes can be exchanged (at a legally separate operation, usually right next door if not still in the building) for cash.

Additionally, there is a grandfathered law allowing the operation of slot machines that existed in the country before the gambling law took affect, so every once in a while you'll find a really old, basic machine that can be played (won about a 1000 yen out of one at a karaoke joint once).

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Permalink Reply by Cory Olson on September 1, 2011 at 6:08pm

I recently mused on the subject of gambling in Korea on my blog and noted that the head of the GNP expressed a desire to have a casino built in Yeosu during a recent visit here. I agree that having casinos in Korea, but only allowing foreigners (except for a further baffling exception for Gangwon Land) is a bit hypocritical and the ban on Koreans gambling overseas is outright ridiculous and impossible to enforce except in the high profile cases of Shin and others who acquire massive gambling debts domestically and overseas. As for my opinion on gambling, I believe it should be a legal (albeit highly regulated) industry for Koreans and foreigners. As with any vice there will be some who will abuse it, but when the wide majority of the population can enjoy something in moderation, then it should be allowed.

As to this, and other circumstances, indicting Korea's status as a modern democracy, I think it is important to note that, arguably, it has been a democracy for less than 30 years. Really amazing progress has been made in the brief time of separation from a totalitarian government, but remnants of control are still going to exist for a while. I do believe they will be abandoned in the near future, however.

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Permalink Reply by Steven S. Bammel on September 2, 2011 at 3:43pm

I'm not sure why this has anything to do with whether Korea's a democracy or not. The laws may be inconsistent, or even ill-advised, but that has nothing to do with the ways laws are passed. And by the way, "communism" is not the antonym of "democracy".

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Permalink Reply by Regina Kim on September 3, 2011 at 2:18am

There's still a lot of underground gambling that goes on in Korea, so I don't know how strictly the laws can be enforced.  My guess is that in this case a celebrity was caught and punished to serve as an example to others and further discourage gambling--or to at least prove that the law is still in effect.

 

I can see why lawmakers would want to make gambling illegal though.  In the past there have been tons--and I mean TONS--of people in Korea who've been ruined (and I mean absolutely ruined--they lose all their money, their job, their homes, sometimes their families, and a lot of them end up becoming alcoholics and/or committing suicide) b/c of their gambling habits.  Entire families who used to be rich have been brought down single-handedly thanks to one member's gambling habits.  Gambling can become like a drug for a lot of Koreans.

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Permalink Reply by Daniel on September 5, 2011 at 12:54am

Regina, you're right in showing that gambling can ruin otherwise healthy families.  And, I got a big beef towards the whole idea that banning gambling is undemocratic.  Democracy is the consensus of the majority for the betterment of the whole is it not?  Gambling, sex industry, and others are not conducive to the whole.  Like the saying goes, "Greed is good but goodness is better..."  So, how to regulate it?  Prison terms I am not sure.  Heavy fines and treatment.  With this particular fellow, he had been caught before and still kept doing it.  According to Korean democracy, he got some of what he needed since he went against his country.  But treatment is needed too.

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Permalink Reply by Philipp Grunwald on September 5, 2011 at 5:59pm

I agree with Regina and Daniel. It's not like there are no reasons to ban it!

There are really more senseless laws than this one! Or just look to the states... ;) All in all I feel the GNP / Korean politicians have understood that too much "democracy" will only destroy societies.

It shouldn't be about "democracy" or not, but about public benefit and common sense! It's not like people would have no options to spend money on in South-Korea! :P (Compare NK...) But "gambling" is always a systematic, planned rip-off of people with a weak will or exiting - not only emotional - problems!! What you or some might look at as harmless, is because you don't have the life and mindset of those people that are addicted or otherwise tempted! Of course for those strong enough it is just "play" once a year, but I doubt the "VIPs", "revenue drivers" and "high margin clients" in this business get any Frequent Flyer miles for their "choice" of the gambling "company", they just get empty pockets.

The casinos make it easier for the addicted to gamble away their money, while trying to stay away from any attention! Not really an industry Korea or the world needs! Buying an AK-47 also shouldn't be limited by "undemocratic" measures, should it? And buying M4rihuana is a popular good in Europe, so why be so undemocratic? :P But I guess you know the reason this is prohibited - also in Korea - even if M4rihuana is not hurting anyone else except yourself...and oh your partner, your family...and so on.

 

I'm happy with the strict Korean government, I am not missing any of that stuff!
And there's still foreign online-poker and -gambling if you really want to lose your money. ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Brian on September 5, 2011 at 10:59pm

To many of us Westerners the idea of basically being able to do whatever you want is labeled "democracy" but that's factually and politically incorrect.  Democracy has to do with allowing the people direct or indirect participation into the laws that govern society, sometimes referred to as popular sovereignty. In society laws exist to service the good of the people, not the individual.  How this "good" is interpreted naturally varies from culture to culture.  In Korean society the good of the whole is much more considered than the good of the individual, part of the strong Confucian roots.  In such a tight knit society, the actions of an individual can have a greater effect on society.

 

In reality the first offense is a proverbial slap on the wrist, Shin has had multiple infractions and probably needs to seek psychiatric help for what is probably a book perfect case on gambling addiction.  Considering how fanatical Koreans are about celebrities Shin as a public figure needs to pay extra care to his actions as they could affect many people.  If the majority of the 30+ million Korean people woke up and decided that gambling should be allowed, things would change.  I for one am glad that there isn't gambling, guns, drugs, and crime running rampant all over the city - evidence perhaps of too much personal freedom?  If a more strict interpretation of social good results in the super low crime rate, kids playing outside late at night, women able to walk home safely, than i for one welcome it.

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Permalink Reply by Philipp Grunwald on September 8, 2011 at 11:10pm

I guess we posted kind of at the same time. I couldn't agree more on your view.

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Permalink Reply by Cory Olson on September 5, 2011 at 11:29pm

Now I am not espousing an entirely libertarian point of view and I will completely acknowledge that there are a great number of cautionary tales out there of the hardships of gambling addiction, however for every 1 addict out there who cannot control themselves, there are thousands who can and have a desire to use their money as they wish. Personally, when I gamble I have a set limit, expect to lose that money, but get enough enjoyment out of the experience to make it worthwhile. Most other gamblers are more likely to be like me rather than the one who loses their savings, job and family (but things being enjoyed in moderation don't make a very interesting story, so that's not what you hear).

I absolutely do not believe people should be allowed to open up casinos on every corner, in fact the number of casinos already in Korea under combined corporate and government control, are probably enough (except maybe a little one in Yeosu, but hey I won't nitpick at it). I simply feel Koreans should be allowed to gamble in these facilities as well. The area around Gangwan Land hasn't turned into a crime ridden, wretched hive of scum and villainy because it is tightly controlled. If these same controls plus more (monitored betting, player tracking, credit limits, etc.) are instituted in the current casinos, I don't believe any widespread social problems will result from them. Sure, these measures are far from perfect and some will make the effort to get around them, but those so determined to pursue their addiction (and unwilling to accept the help that should be publicly available) are already gambling away their lives overseas, or more likely in organized crime-controlled underground casinos. An additional benefit of allowing locals into existing casinos is that these underground gambling rings (and don't pretend they aren't widespread and easily available anywhere in Korea) would lose their appeal, thus closing the spigot on a huge source of income for organized crime. From an outside perspective, it would seem that no major social change would be taking place as a result of adjusting current laws and in fact greater good would result.

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