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Permalink Reply by Dom LaVigne on March 5, 2010 at 9:15am

Others in the group who are living in Korea will certainly be experts in this area, but I can offer some limited advice based on my own, current search:

1. Depending on the level of your current position, would you find it still challenging/rewarding to go back and teach English? More importantly, do you enjoy (or would you enjoy) teaching, or just doing it to land in KR and hook onto a better job? If you would really not enjoy it, I don't think your heart would be in it, and it would come across that way to the kids.

2. How much of a salary cut would you be taking? (No need to answer that on KBC.) If it is something really dramatic, think that it would likely be very tough to get back to your current level, without having to go through the salary ranks again.

3. If you are currently in a very high-level position, it might be tough to get something more fresh in the market, as people might view that you would not stay very long with it.

4. If you can afford it, I'd recommend spending as much time as you can in Korea networking and job hunting (e.g., 60-90 days). That is the only way to meet the right contacts if you are looking at green technology -- you need to know who the players are in that market, meet them, get introduced to their contacts, etc. and put in the face time. The hardest part about any job search in Asia if you are doing it from overseas is not being there for "face time" (although Skype video makes up for it somewhat, but still not the same...)

If you cannot, worth trying to build your network and do as much research as you can from overseas, and then invest in 3-4 weeks if you can go to Seoul and meet up with people and do further research and networking on-the-ground.

5. On expat packages and relocation, in most cases you would need to be already working for a firm in your home country (US?) and then if they send you out to KR, they would likely put you on some kind of expat package. That said, that is getting cutdown a lot these days, except for people at the very top levels. Most likely you'd get hired on a modified local package (higher salary but otherwise normal benefits, no housing, no kids' schooling, no tax equalization, etc.)

Very few people I know are on expat packages except those at the C-level and/or those who came directly out of the States, Europe, Australia/NZ with an MNC.

My own opinion (and I welcome people's comments if they feel differently) is that it's not worth taking a major hit in your career progression to move to another country, much as you might wish to live there. If you can secure something fairly similar in title/rank, or perhaps something slightly less senior than what you are currently doing, go for it. But, I don't think most employers will want to take you on if the role would appear to be too junior for your experience, and they might feel that you'd likely walk within a year for something better. Also, questions will arise as you go onto the next steps in your career about why you went from an X+1 job title/position to an X-2 title/position, and then are now looking to go to an X+2 level.

---Dom

PS: In my own research on KR govt FDI areas, I know the Seoul govt is certainly doing a lot with green technology and developing more a green environment, as are a number of other govts. This could be a good way for you to get from a bigger-picture level of what is happening, and then try to identify potential companies who are relevant to your own interests.

I must say that from various trips to Korea in 2005-2008, I was very impressed that the country appeared (and still appears to be) way ahead of other Asian nations re. its environmental consciousness and efforts. Everything from the hotels not using plastic liners when they return your dry-cleaning, to McD's and other fast-food places having an entire process setup for returning drink cups (glasses, not paper cups) and separating litter and food.

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Permalink Reply by Navid Firouz on March 5, 2010 at 2:26pm

I personally agree with Dom, It is nice to earn some pocket money on the side but I don't see the point in teaching English or getting a critical salary cut until you find something.
The time can be better invested in finding what you really want, or at least something close to it. Don't give up :)

Actually larger companies in Korea don't care if you are abroad or not, if they need someone they sort out "everything" without a problem. I've experienced the same thing in Canada, Montreal. Because of this, the worries that many foreigners have about visa is actually not that bad.

Furthermore look at it from another perspective, how would a hiring manager in your industry look at an applicant at your level who turned to teaching English?

Good luck!


(PS: I'm not saying that teaching English is a bad thing.)

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Permalink Reply by LAura on March 6, 2010 at 8:58pm

I do not know where you live and I do not know if you have been in korea but being a english teacher is one of the most economically rewarding jobs in Korea right now.
You can get everything paid, medical insurance, house, visa sponsor, very good salary for a few hours work during the week. You just need to find them properly.

I agree with Dom but the problem is, if you do not have money in korea, can you really do networking. Your are, the green projects and those things, actually the networking is not free. you have to pay for most of the events.... and it is not cheap if you wanna a good quality of contacts.

Also you have to stay long here if you want them to trust you and count on you.

So, for a while you can do teaching as the same time you are looking for recruiters and networking. teaching kinds does not take until very late at night, so you can network. Just make sure you are willing to do everything is order to get what you want.

If you wanna be teacher, just make sure you come before the government change the way to select teachers. I read that is gonna change and get harder than before in terms of requirements. But there is always another way.

I hope it helps..

Laura

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Permalink Reply by Steven S. Bammel on March 5, 2010 at 2:44pm

I agree with everything Dom mentioned.

In particular, you have to take a cold hard look at the reality of where you are now and be sure you don't make career moves that will reflect badly on you in the future. If you went from a management position in the US to teaching kids in Korea, future prospective employers for a management position may be suspicious even of the previous management job.

I think the key question to ask yourself is what you bring to a job in Korea that an employer needs but knows he/she can't get from a local hire. To move out of the English-resource ranks and work for a Korean employer, you've got to show some very special skills, and that's just not easy.

On the other hand, getting a job in Korea with a US company or other MNC might be easier than for a Korean company. The Korean government is releasing tons of funds for green projects, so if you lead US green technology companies to some of the money, that will be the value you bring which nobody else can.

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Permalink Reply by Dom LaVigne on March 5, 2010 at 5:19pm

I would like to raise a caveat here, as someone who has done ESL teaching in the past (to Vietnamese refugees (boat people)) who had fled to the States, and former Iraqi soliders who had fled Saddam's terror in the early 90s. I also have a number of friends who teach ESL in various capacities in Asia.

I believe quite strongly that ESL teaching is an invaluable profession, because those who do this are helping to shape future generations around the world. Korea is probably the most aggressive (in a positive way) of any country I know, where parents are willing to sacrifice so much for their kids to get an English education and perhaps ultimately to attend university in a predominantly English-speaking country. It is testament to the importance of ESL, given how strong is the demand for teachers throughout every city and province in Korea.

I know some people who have made ESL a career and have lived and worked in countries their entire lives, being very passionate about what they do. Others try it out and then determine later to look at other career options. For me, I had considered the ESL route when I were first looking at moving out to Asia, but when I reflected back on my time teaching ESL in Washington, DC, I realized it took a very special person (and very special skillset) to be able to teach. Without that passion and that drive, the students will pick up on it quite quickly. It becomes a disservice to the kids if teachers are not 100% committed and passionate about what they are doing (just as in any profession we choose).

The reason I am pointing this out is that a number of KBC members are ESL teachers, or were formerly ESL teachers at the beginnings of their careers, and then moved onto other areas. I don't want people to feel that the discussions here about careers were slighting ESL and teaching, as these comments were not (and should not have been).

Teaching English and teaching in general (certainly in the case of the US) is unfortunately a very low-paying profession, which I don't believe is right, given the importance of teachers in nation-building... the future of a country really begins with its teachers, first and foremost.

While other occupations might pay more or be seen as a "higher level," that is what society views, but I don't necessarily feel it is so. My personal opinion -- there is no "unimportant" job. Every job has a purpose and without a person who does that job well, other people will suffer. If there were no teachers (or teachers missing), students would be directly affected, which will have a domino affect as they get older and try to get jobs in business or govt, if they do not have a proper education.

In Korea, I believe that ESL jobs serve a very (very) important role as the foundation of building future Korean world leaders and businesspeople. However, for people wanting to work in Korea who might be in mid-career positions in business, the cost-differencial of salaries/compensation and very different skillsets of moving from a business position to a teaching one could have dramatic impacts on a person's career. It is not to say that one is right or wrong (because again, I don't believe there is a "wrong" job or an "unimportant" one). But, how people build their careers and the steps they take are very important -- whether they are a teacher who changes to become a businessperson, but discovers that is not their true calling and decides to go back to a teaching career, or a businessperson that has a similar experience wanting to venture into teaching.

Either way, what the posts here I believe were intended to say is that a career path must be built very carefully and with much thought and consideration. Failure to do so (even with the best intentions of wanting to move to another country) could cost the person dearly in terms of future career potential.

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Permalink Reply by Steven S. Bammel on March 5, 2010 at 6:10pm

Thanks for your sensitivity, Dom. I had meant to mention something like this too, but forgot to do so on my posting.

For the record, I started my career in Korea as an English teacher in a foreign-language institute in Ansan back in 1993/1994 and it worked very well for me. I recommend this approach wholeheartedly to many young people looking for a great experience out of university.

As well, many people find that ESL is a meaningful long-term profession and develop impressive experiences, credentials and status in the field. Others choose to make ESL a stepping stone to something else and both approaches deserve respect.

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Permalink Reply by Leon Kaye on March 6, 2010 at 1:08am

Thanks for the comments. My thoughts about taking a risk and teaching in Korea is because the industry I had used to work in has pretty much declined. When I taught English in the mid-1990s, I did enjoy it, and know I would enjoy it again if I were in the right environment. I also figure I could write about green tech issues (as I do almost daily on my site and for an online magazine), and do the occasional project as well remotely while as I network. I think I would be able to tell a future employer that I was continuing to work in this space . . . just a thought.

Here's the thing--I've taken a huge salary cut already over the past year--so financially I'd be about even.

I appreciate the idea of learning where the Korean government green money is going. It's something I'll pursue more aggressively.

Thank you again for all the helpful comments. I was gone for a couple weeks (Brazil), but I hope to be more engaged and contribute to the site, as I really get much out if it.

I hope I can return the favor!

Thanks,

Leon

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Permalink Reply by Ron Cahoon on March 6, 2010 at 10:13pm

One option you may consider is to teach business courses at one of the universities in Seoul. Since you have your MBA getting a position teaching management, or other 101 level courses should not be that difficult. The pay is low, but the hours are too. You could work from 6 to 12 hours per week and look for your "real job" in your free time. If it sounds interesting I recommend you set your sights on a position for next semester. Many Koreans continue to look down on English teachers, so if you are thinking about teaching again then I recommend you teach business.

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Permalink Reply by Steven S. Bammel on March 6, 2010 at 10:19pm

That's an excellent suggestion, Ron.

In fact, the universities are all under government mandate to increase the proportion of classes taught in English. These aren't "ESL" classes; they are classes in all different subjects where the teaching is to be done in English. Most of these are currently being filled (at least at Hanyang in the area I'm familiar with) by Korean professors who are uncomfortable doing English lectures.

This could be a very good approach for getting one's foot in Korea.

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Permalink Reply by Ron Cahoon on March 6, 2010 at 10:30pm

In addition, many Korean business schools are pushing to get accredited by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB). Leon if your MBA is from an AACSB accredited business school then it can work in your favor. It's something to consider.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Ward on March 7, 2010 at 12:33am

I agree with Ron.

I'd also add to try and do as much networking as you can from home. You might be surprised at the contacts you already have but just don't know about until you dig a little bit. Coming to Korea to scout things out is a good idea if you can do it, but try to have some meetings lined up before you get here.

Maybe even talking to your Alma Mater and see if it has any existing relationships with any Korean unis you might be able to press for at least at introduction to possibly teach there in an MBA program or something related.

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Permalink Reply by Leon Kaye on March 7, 2010 at 3:29am

I like the idea of teaching business at one of the universities. Ideally, my dream would to teach sustainable business practices at a place like KAIST, but teaching business courses in general would be very attractive to get a foot in the door--and having had the experiences (good and bad) of teaching English way back when, I see the points Roy and Steve had made. I did graduate from a AACSB (top 25, supposedly) school, so it's something to pursue.

Thanks again. This is really helping me sort out my thoughts and ideas (of which I have many!)

Thank you,

Leon

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